Thunder and Roses | Interview | Reissue of 1969 Monster
Thunder and Roses was a power-trio from Philadelphia that played in the tradition of Cream and The Jimi Hendrix Experience.
Their sole album was originally released in 1969 and it’s a cult classic heavy psychedelic rock. The band was named after a story from The Astounding Science Fiction Anthology. It all began when 18-years old guitar player Chris Bond and bassist Tom Schaffer met drummer George Emme (previously of The Electric Power House). Rehearsing six days a week, the trio soon began playing shows at venues like Electric Factory and the Trauma.
United Artists Records released ‘King Of The Black Sunrise’ in 1969. It was recorded at Sigma Sound by Joe Tarcia. Dominated by Bond’s outstanding fuzz-wah guitar playing, the album featured seven original songs plus a storming cover of Hendrix’s ‘Red House’. Sadly, the record label made a wrong decision when they refused to release the killer ‘White Lace and Strange’ as a 45 to promote the album, choosing the mockery ‘Country Life’ instead. ‘White Lace and Strange,’ was famously covered by Seattle’s Nirvana.
After Thunder and Roses split, guitar player and main songwriter Chris Bond had a successful career as producer, songwriter, arranger and session musician, working closely with Hall & Oates as well as other top artists.
You can pre-order the upcoming Out-Sider/Guerssen reissue (out August 25) which comes with remastered sound and with original artwork in hard cardboard sleeve, and as well as fold out insert with liner notes by yours truly.
“The chemistry was so right and the music was so good”
Would you like to talk a bit about your background? Where and when did you grow up? Was music a big part of your family life?
George Emme: My father was a drummer and lead singer in his own bands, The 4 Deuces and my grandparents were in vaudeville. Grandmother played piano and sang and my grandfather played sax. So yes, I come from a musical family and was interested in drums when I was nose high to the kitchen table. It was the only thing on my mind all through grammar and high school. In school I put my first band together. I was 13 years old. I started playing professionally at 15. It was three nights a week, while I was still in school. In 1967, I had to go to NY to get working papers to say I was able to play bars that served food at that age. The other two guys in the band were 25, married and had kids. The name of the band was the Electric Power House, which is ironic, because Eric Clapton had a band before Cream called the Powerhouse. I grew up in Mayfair, Philadelphia, and have lived here my whole life.
When did you begin playing music?
Well, I remember when I was around six years old I was playing my father’s drums. In his case I set it up to play and I plugged in one of his flood lights and put it on me as I was playing his drums. But little did I know I burnt a hole in the carpet with the floodlight. That’s why I remember that time [laughs]. Then we moved from North Philly to Mayfair and when I was in grammar school I took drum lessons right away and learned all my rudiments and how to read music. I joined the school orchestra as soon as I could. No sooner than I was able to handle the sticks. Everyday after school I would come home, go in my basement and play every bit of music that came my way. Whether it be background music on TV or the radio, on a semi padded ironing board standing up, basically working on whatever came to my ears. The one thing my father did teach me was, two drummers can have the same abilities but one is going to have a better feel for the music. That’s the one that’s going to get the job.
When did you decide that you wanted to start writing and performing your own music? What brought that about for you?
When I decided to play original music, I was very happy playing with the Electric Powerhouse trio three nights a week. When I wasn’t playing I was hanging out with other hippies at Rittenhouse Square and one day in front of Ward’s Folly, which is a clothing store that sold bell bottom jeans I saw two guys, with hair down to their waist discussing they have auditioned 15 drummers already and haven’t found the one they needed. Since I overheard that conversation, I said, “Hey, I’m a drummer! You think I could audition?”. Then I gave them my phone number. I got a call, went down to a double car garage in the center city with a wall of amplifiers and a plate of hash brownies. Chris Bond and the bass player Tom Schaffer were there. I auditioned about a half a dozen songs. He stopped and said what are you doing in Philadelphia, would you like to join the band? The chemistry was so right and the music was so good I couldn’t resist so I quit the Electric Powerhouse and joined Thunder and Roses.
Were you part of any other bands before forming Thunder and Roses? Any recordings or releases by them?
As I already mentioned, the Electric Powerhouse was my first professional band. We played all the covers. But we were good. I started playing three pieces. So I was primed for Thunder and Roses by that band. As the music was coming out, we were playing it. All considered at the time underground progressive rock that was being played on FM Radio instead of the usual AM radio. From then on AM was considered bubblegum music. Then the world was changed forever and still going strong.
How did you decide to use the name “Thunder and Roses?”
Chris told me he got the name Thunder and Roses from reading science fiction books.
When and where did you play their first gig? What sort of venues did Thunder and Roses play early on?
We only did a few concerts together and they were a month to 6 weeks apart, and the money wasn’t all that great after everyone involved got their share. The road manager and electrical engineer and two roadies, I was making more money working three nights a week in my first band than I was with Thunder and Roses. It was the reason I quit. I wanted to play at least three days a week because my chops were up from rehearsing 6 nights a week for a year. Our first gig that I remember was Pennypack Pop concert in the Park. We might have been the first of the series of concerts there. It was us and The American Dream, two new Philly bands. We played the second fret I believe. Of course we also played The Barn & Arts center in NJ. A real big one at Belmont plateau off City Line Avenue well over 3000 came out to see us during the daytime in the summer outdoor concert. The Electric Factory about three times. And also a couple of college gigs … more I can’t remember. We did the High-Lit tv Show a couple of times and T. Morgan as the DJ for WDAS he made sure we had a lot of airplay. They even used to play (‘King of the Black Sunrize’) as background music for the news.
How was the band accepted by the audience?
Every band I ever played in got a good reception, if no one applauds, then you should find a different profession. When we played at the Barn & Arts Center, the power went off while we were in the middle of a song. Everything stopped except me. I went into a drum solo for a short time and got a big applause. That’s how the show ended. That was on our encore.
“Jimi Hendrix, Cream, Black Sabbath, Iron Butterfly, Led Zeppelin – all rolled into one big fat joint”
What influenced the band’s sound?
Obviously Jimi Hendrix, Cream, Black Sabbath, Iron Butterfly, Led Zeppelin – all rolled into one big fat joint. One time I took Chris to his girlfriend’s house in the country, because he didn’t drive. While he was spending time with his girlfriend getting high, he gave me a tab of acid, headphones and ‘Electric Ladyland’ by The Jimi Hendrix Experience. Guess what, after that I was experienced! I had Mitchell, Baker and Bonham running through my veins. Chris would spend all his time in his attic on the third floor where he slept at his parents house smoking weed and playing his guitar through a little Fender Reverb, which he miked on stage and ran that through six Bruce cabinets. Same as the bass player. Two walls of amps behind me! That’s why we needed roadies and Rented U-Haul trucks for the gigs.
What was the scene in Philadelphia?
The music was behind everything. It was changing the world before our very own eyes. The scene was groovy. The start of long hair, bell bottom jeans, it all started in Philly with The Electric Factory, then other clubs started opening up in the city. The 2nd Fret and the Trauma, to name a couple. All the name acts you were hearing on the radio were playing there. Back then everyone was so involved in the music, concerts were the best thing ever. It was all about peace, love, and flowers. Those were the days when the women started throwing their bras away. You could leave your car windows and your front door open at night. Hardly any crime. Everyone wanted to be hip. If you were hip you were cool and could be trusted 88% of the time. Opposite of what it is today. Dayglow psychedelic posters, strobe lights black lights, fog , acid, weed, hash, uppers and downers and other stuff. No one should mess with. All and all the best generation ever despite Vietnam and all the protests.
“The whole thing was one big experiment”
How did you get signed to United Artists Records?
That was all done and arranged before I even joined the band. When I went on the audition Chris told me at the end of the year we will be recording 4 record sides. One LP and one single on United Artist. After playing a few of his songs, of course, I said, OK. “How much do you rehearse?”. He said, “We’ll have Sundays off to do our laundry”. So I went from playing 3 nights a week to rehearsing 6 nights a week for free, not making any money because I knew he was great and it was fun playing with him. We never had a single disagreement. Always got along great. It was T. Morgan, the disk jockey for WDAS and our manager Chris, that must have convinced him to get a record deal. So it was T. Morgan that got us the record deal. The whole thing was one big experiment.
What’s the story behind your ‘King Of The Black Sunrise’?
That is a question you would have to ask Chris Bond. Changing from a man to a woman, might have something to do with from thunder to a rose? Just my opinion. After Nirvana recorded one of our songs one of Chris’s friends called me and asked me if I would do a reunion tour with Chris. Of course I said yes, but by then it was too late. He had the operation and was now a woman. The money he made from the LP went to his kids and operation. Chris was a genius, one of a kind … had a very high IQ. He quit school in 10th grade, took his high school equivalency test and graduated and started working on his music. He went on to produce and arrange for Hall & Oates and countless others. Chris’ voice to me sounds like Jack Bruce from Cream.
How many copies were pressed and where were they distributed?
I don’t know the exact number of LPs made, but I do know it was delivered all over the USA and possibly beyond?
Would you share your insight on the albums’ tracks?
I loved every song on the LP. We had 100 hours to record it at Sigma Sound studios with Joe Tarcia, the engineer. My conception of the band was just progressive rock. It wasn’t until Chris decided to do overdubs on one side of the LP when it became psychedelic. It’s OK, but I wasn’t expecting it to be psychedelic. I would have preferred it to be just progressive rock. I have to admit, it was amazing what he did with overdubbing.
You also released a single; ‘Country Life’ / ‘I Love A Woman’. Was that the same take as on the album?
Yes, the same cuts from the LP made the singles 45 A&M and Columbia also released the single. It should have been ‘White Lace And Strange’ and ‘Dear Dream Maker’.
What kind of equipment did you use and what can you say about the artwork?
Chris used a small Fender reverb. He got all his sustain and feedback from great control and put a mike on it and pumped it through 6 Bruce cabinets. But the bass player played directly into the amps. 12 Bruce cabinets in all. We had nothing to do with the artwork on the LP that was an artist for United Artist. I played a 6 piece Sky Blue pearl Ludwig drum kit.
What was the weirdest gig you played?
Nothing weird about any of our gigs, except when the power went out at the Barn & Arts Center?
Bob Kirkpatrick joined the band after original bassist Tom Schaffer left the band.
Bob Kirkpatrick: I played with Thunder and Roses after the original bass player left the band. Chris Bond had asked me to play with the band, but we had been in a band together called Glad. That was a great band but Chris was really a genius. I joined the band after the bass player on the album left.
I grew up in Delaware and played with George Thorogood while in high school. He is a year younger than me. I lived with him and his parents as I was finishing 12 grade before moving to Philadelphia. Growing up in Delaware was only about 30 miles from Philly. George Thorogood and I went to the same high school, Brandywine. We were both into The Rolling Stones, but from The Stones we learned who Howlin’ Wolf was and John Lee Hooker and so many more. Our first band was The Quiet Ones. It was really just some kids in high school playing together. George and I played my senior year. The last gig we played was at Whiskey Beach in Delaware where we made the National News because President Johnson’s daughter showed up on the beach drinking as we played. It was a different era back then. That night we played a Toga party at a fraternity party. It was different.
Growing up I helped my parents build our house and actually it was the last thing I wanted to do in my life, but life does take some interesting turns. A classmate of mine Pete Simon and neighbor during my school years in Delaware 1959 to graduation in 1967 was really into music and listening to radio stations all over the east coast and wherever the AM sound reached. He was the person that in younger years really opened many doors in the music world for me. We had a band called The Quiet Ones that was in 1964. We called ourselves that name hoping to be anything but quiet. Pete played drums in that band and a fellow named Tim said this young fellow named George Thorogood would be a good match for the band. George joined the band and we did the usual The Rolling Stones songs, Them, and started to do Howlin’ Wolf and John Lee Hooker songs. Pete wasn’t the greatest drummer and something I still feel bad about we asked him to leave and we got a different drummer. This is the interesting part. In later history his brother Jeff Simon started playing his drums and became the drummer for George Thorogood and the Delaware Destroyers and still is the drummer. We changed the name of the band to the Midnight Sun and George Thorogood would smash maracas while he was singing. We weren’t rich enough to smash guitars like The Who. I was the guitar player in the band and truthfully, I was not that good, but I put my heart into it. The last gig we played was on Whiskey Beach in Rehoboth, Delaware Labor Day 1967. We made many national newspapers because Linda Byrde Johnson, the President Johnsons’ daughter was drinking on the beach watching us play. That night we played at a Toga party that the police raided and the band broke up and I was invited to go to Philadelphia by a young Philadelphia woman Susan Kowalchick. I met her at a place called the Trauma and there I met Chris Bond and he asked me if I wanted to play in a band, he was forming Glad. I had decided to play bass instead of guitar. We had a place in West Philly that we practiced at and the drummer Laish (James Cotton) and I lived there. Chris was pretty much of a genius guitar player and at times difficult to understand, but he was fantastic. I remember going to his house and staying overnight the night Bobby Kennedy was assassinated. You remember some things more than other things. Glad played a few gigs and just seemed to fade away.
We all went our ways and the music scene in Philly was pretty amazing. I had two great friends, John “The Baptist” McGettigan and Allen Knickerbocker. I stayed at John’s apartment a lot, which he shared with Frank Stallone, both who played in a band called Valentine. One of the members of the band went on to Hall & Oates and Frank Stallone introduced me to his brother Sylvester. I had a great time and met great people. Allen was the roadie for Thunder and Roses.
Chris asked me if I wanted to join Thunder and Roses when they were first starting. I liked Chris, but he was so difficult to play with. I said I would pass. Well that album came out and I am like “OK mistake,” but I just accepted it. Allen Knickerbocker came up to me and asked if I wanted to join the band because their bass player had left. Of course, I said yes and started practicing with them and we played together at some interesting venues. The 2nd Fret was a pretty neat place in Philly we played at. The audience wasn’t that large because Cream was playing at the Electric Factory that night. Really the signing of the album and songs on the album were done before I joined the band. The story I was told was that we were supposed to play Woodstock, but a band called Mountain beat them out. After that the band broke up and we all went our separate ways. Since I had some connections with music people in Philly I started a band called Stop with George Thorogood. That was a really good band, but never really played anywhere.
I did try to keep in contact with Chris and did keep in contact with Laish who performed as a fantastic drummer until he passed away a few years ago. He was my friend. When Chris became Christa I received a call from George asking if I wanted to do a new tour with the band since the world still in some ways knew of one of our songs that came out in the 90’s with Nirvana.
Christa did send me a song he wrote and sang on before he died. In theory I think now I own the song, but want to be sure of what to do legally by sharing it. I had about 2 hours of songs George Thorogood and I did together that someone stole from me. They were on tape and a fellow said he would put the tapes on CD’s, but never heard from him again. George had a great idea about me playing bass on it and him playing drums. It is a great song. When Chris became Christa and would speak to me, he thanked me for being nice to him. No one should ever have to thank you for being nice.
I hope this gives some insight into the times of Thunder and Roses. As far as equipment goes, I had three Marshal amps and still have the 1956 Fender bass that I traded for my 69 Fender Precision bass with Valentines’ John “The Baptist” McGettigan.
Never did drugs in the 1960’s to this day which having past shoulder length hair in the 60’s was difficult. The long hairs thought you were a narc and the cops thought you had drugs. It was a personal choice that I have no regrets about though getting pulled over every time I got in my car or on a bus or just walking down the street was annoying, but I kept my mouth shut and I am still here in 2022.
It was a different time back then, peace and love and the war in Vietnam.
How pleased was the band with the sound of the album? What, if anything, would you like to have been different from the finished product?
When the LP was finished it was the first time I ever heard myself play. I was shocked myself? I couldn’t believe my ears? I was amazed. It wasn’t easy to record yourself back then with only cheap small tape recorders. Like I said previously I would have preferred for the LP to just be progressive rock. But that’s OK it still turned out good regardless.
What happened after the band stopped? Were you still in touch with other members? Is any member still involved with the music?
I took Chris to a train station. He was going to Boston to produce and arrange behind the scenes and underground, and he did about 20 albums for other bands. His new name was Christa! I went back to playing covers where I could work more often and with a couple of original bands. I found out later quitting Thunder and Roses was the biggest mistake I ever made in my life. The band was only the second pro band I worked with, I didn’t know what was out there till I quit and started auditioning other bands and finding out they weren’t really that good, nothing like Thunder and Roses.
Looking back, what was the highlight of your time in the band? Which songs are you most proud of? Where and when was your most memorable gig?
I would have to say Belmont Plateau where 3000 people came out just to see us, and always loved the few gigs we did at The Electric Factory and The Barn and Arts center was memorable. It was much fun giving out autographs after the gigs. I liked all the songs we did, except, people don’t understand that ‘Country Life’ was not supposed to be a country song, more like a country mockery. We would bring up all the important people everyone knows to sing the chorus off of Q Cards for entertainment to get everyone’s attention. You can hear all the people sing on the chorus. It worked live. Maybe not so much on the LP?
I liked every song on the LP. The funny thing is you don’t know which one is going to be a hit. That is left up to the public, but this time it was Nirvana that covered ‘White Lace And Strange’ that brought all the attention to the band which called for a reunion. Also ‘Dear Dream Maker’ was popular as well. Other bands began playing our songs. I hope that one day all the songs will be covered by other bands!
Thank you for taking your time. Last word is yours.
I retired in 2016. Oh and one more thing, I inherited my father’s drum kit after he passed. It’s a 1948 4 piece vintage Ludwig Black Diamond Pearl kit, 26 inch bass 9813 6X16 Floor 7-inch snare from the 30s. I used the last 20 years of my playing in bands and I played in a lot of them. My father was from the big band era, he never showed me anything on how to play, because he hated rock and roll. It was crap in his eyes. I can’t blame him, because rap is crap in my eyes and if I had a kid into rap I would have felt the same way as he did about rock. I forgive him. The end.
Klemen Breznikar
Guerssen Official Website / Facebook / Instagram / Twitter / Bandcamp / YouTube
Thank you for the unknown band and interview.