Cuneiform Records recently issued ‘Complete Works’ by Heretic, a project by Japanese experimental guitarist Hiro Kawahara.

Kawahara was active even before Heretic with projects such as Osiris, Astral Temple and Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. Those releases are extremely rare and done in a true DIY spirit. The world of Heretic consists of strange music filled with dark ambient. All past works were digitally released thanks to Cuneiform Records. Hiro Kawahara’s music is based around a concept he calls “Zen-Electronics.” “I was making music using electronics and technology to resonate with the listener and confront their own consciousness. In other words, my music kicks the listener’s unconscious layer, then makes them conscious.”

“All music has been remastered over half a year since last summer”

Where are you originally from? Tell us about growing up?

Hiro Kawahara: I was born and grew up in Kyoto, Japan. Arashiyama, which is famous as a tourist spot, is my birthplace. I lived in Kyoto until junior high school, high school, and university, and after graduating from university, I worked in Osaka as a software engineer. After moving to Tokyo in 1999 to change jobs, I mainly worked as a development supporter for semiconductor core software until recently.

How did you first get interested in music?

Originally, I was not interested in Japanese popular music. When I was in elementary school and junior high school, the first thing I was passionate about was The Beatles. I still love ‘Let It Be’ and ‘Abbey Road,’ especially since I experienced ‘Let It Be’ in real time. In the year before the remastering of Heretic material, I personally enjoyed editing the ‘Let It Be’ session in January 1969, the so-called ‘Nagra Tape,’ where all the data was removed from the dialogue and unnecessary beeps, and only the music was extracted as remastering. The technique from that time is utilized in the remastering work of Heretic this time.

What was the scene like in Japan?

If you ask me when I was a teenager, I wasn’t interested in Japanese popular music. But I liked hard/hard rock bands like Carmen Maki & Oz, Gedou, Flower Travellin’ Band. When I was a teenager, I listened to Western progressive rock bands such as Emerson, Lake & Palmer, King Crimson and Yes, but I didn’t listen to Japanese progressive rock bands at the time.

What are some of the very early bands or projects you were part of (pre- Jekyll & Hyde)?

You may have misunderstood about this, so let me explain. Before Heretic, the projects and groups I was involved in are as follows. Basically, each work was self-sold as a cassette.

Osiris:
‘Journey To New World’ (1979: Cassette)
‘A Midsummer Night’s Dream’ (1979: Cassette)
‘Osiris Mythology’ (1979: Cassette)
‘Astral Temple’ (1980:Cassette)
‘Rhapsody For You’ (1980: Cassette)
‘The Restration Of Soul’ (1980: Cassette)
‘In and Out’ (1980: Cassette)
‘In The Mist Of Time’ (1980: LP)
‘El Rayo De Luna I’ (1981: Cassette)
‘El Rayo De Luna II’ (1981: Cassette)
‘A Failed Play’ (1982: Cassette)
‘Echo Troublant’ (1982: Cassette)

Astral Tempel:
‘Shadow Illusion’ (1981: Cassette)
‘Vista Under Arc Light’ (1982: Cassette)
‘100% Odd Lots Session’ (1982: Cassette)

‘Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde’ (with Yozox Yamamoto from Ain Soph)
‘Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde 1’ (1981:Cassette)
‘Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde 2’ (1982:Cassette)
‘Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde 3’ (1982:Cassette)
‘Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde 4’ (1982:Cassette)

What’s the story behind Jekyll & Hyde? There’s barely any information about it, but you managed to release an album in 1977.

Just before the Osiris LP ‘In The Mist Of Time’ came out, a mutual acquaintance introduced me to Yozox Yamamoto, the leader of a jazz-rock group called Ain Soph. Released four cassette works under the name of Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde.

‘Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde 1’ (1981:Cassette)
‘Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde 2’ (1982:Cassette)
‘Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde 3’ (1982:Cassette)
‘Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde 4’ (1982:Cassette)

I have the digital data of the following two titles, but the data of three and four are lost after moving, including the master tapes.

‘Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde 1’ (1981:Cassette)
‘Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde 2’ (1982:Cassette)

Yozox Yamamoto and I are still good friends. The sound here was mostly improvised performances by two different types of guitarists. Due to the musical quality and fear of damaging Yozox’s career, I am not going to release them at this moment. However, after consulting with him in the future, if we can make an effective remix, I think there is a possibility of releasing them.

How many copies were pressed?

‘In The Mist Of Time’ (1980: LP): 500 copies. Other cassettes should have sold very few copies in Japan.

Would love it if you can elaborate on the formation of Osiris.

Osiris was my musical debut project. Before that, I loved hard rock, but after listening to Ashra’s ‘Sunrain’ on FM, I fell in love with “Krautrock”. Especially Ash Ra Temple, Ashra. Later, after Mr. Manuel Gottsching first came to Japan, I got in touch with him through an acquaintance and gradually built up a friendship. Since 2000, I have seen him and his wife every time he came to Japan. Some of them have guided sightseeing in Tokyo. At the core of Osiris was this respect for Mr. Manuel Gottsching. Therefore, it was a big shock that he passed away in December last year… I added a lot of Osiris and Astral Tempel tracks to this ‘Requiem’ album, especially the ‘Astral Tempel – Live at Ritsumeikan University’ which was a tribute to Ash Ra Temple’s debut album. Therefore, ‘Requiem’ contains the meaning of tribute to Mr. Manuel Gottsching.

You released several albums on tape and ‘In The Mist Of Time’ on vinyl, right?

Yes, about ‘In The Mist Of Time’, in addition to previous answers, this was my first vinyl LP. Luckily, the magazine company ‘Fool’s Mate’, which introduced European rock at the time, was backing me up.

What about Astral Tempel?

The members changed halfway through, so it’s a two-phase band, but it’s basically a trio live band. You can hear the sound on ‘Requiem’ and the bonus track of ‘Complete Works’. The first period was a homage to Ash Ra Temple, and the second period was more jazz-oriented.

What initiated Heretic in 1984?

I met Thoru Ohta and he did half the music production for Heretic. After this, I will continue to make music with him for a long time.

I would love it if you could comment on each of the albums.

Here are the catch copies for each work in this digital release.

Heretic – ‘Interface’ (1985):
Kyoto, Japan’s answer to Heldon. Dense synth/guitar sonic excursions. First album from 1985.

Heretic – ‘Escape Sequence’ (1985):
Heretic’s second album, released in 1988 with the participation of many guests. Think of it as Kyoto, Japan’s answer to King Crimson, Heldon.

Heretic – ‘Live – Kyoto ’85 and Tokyo ’88’ (2022):
This is an unreleased work. This album is taken from Heretic’s few live and rehearsal performances. This live work is a rare recording.

Heretic – ‘1984-88’ (1994):
Kyoto, Japan’s answer to Heldon. Dense synth/guitar sonic excursions. This compilation has material from the first and second albums, plus improvisation sessions, and bonus tracks.

Heretic – ‘Past In Future’ (1996):
Demo work, very limited CD-R at that time. The music straddles the line between electronic rock and ambient, hovering somewhere between the random soundscapes of Biota, the aggressive imagery of Richard Pinhas, and the ambient driftiness of Forrest Fang’s ‘Migration,’ but in fact is like none of these. This is completely original. Peter Thelen, Expose.

Heretic – ‘Yayoi Dream’ (1996):
New technology brings new opportunities, yet few musicians have the imagination to make the most of it. Hiro Kawahara is, I feel, one of those at the cutting edge exploiting it to the full. Nigel Harris

Heretic – ‘Drugging For M’ (1997):
A post-apocalyptic future using a couple of interactive control MIDI software.

Hiro Kawahara / Heretic – ‘Requiem 2022 Extended Version’ (2010):
Compilation album, originally released by Eurock, US. Dedicated to my friend Manuel Gottsching, and also to the many affected Japanese people in the big Tsunami on March 11, 2011.

Hiro Kawahara and Peter Frohmader (1998):
This is an unreleased work. Dedicated to the late Peter Frohmader. 3D (stereophonic) processing is applied to some tracks.

All music has been remastered over half a year since last summer. While I was working on it, I was focused on hearing better for concentrating on mastering with loud volume, but certain tracks brought back memories, including my life back then. I think your question was about what image comes to mind for each track. However, since it’s music from 30~40 years ago, I can only say that it reminded me of the lifestyle at that time rather than just an image.

It’s wonderful that all these albums are available digitally via Cuneiform Records. Are you planning to run vinyl or cd reissues too?

From my understanding, there shouldn’t be any CD/LP releases from Cuneiform Records. I personally have no interest in physical media releases, especially vinyl releases. The reason is that the mastering of past vinyl works was terrible, so the sound was too bad, and in the case of the current remaster, the supersonic bass sound is emphasized, so if it is vinyl, needle skipping will occur. Also, I don’t like the fact that there is a physical gap between the A and B sides. As a result, digital releases are the best fit for my taste at the moment. All data in Bandcamp is 48kHz/32bit data.

What would you say was your overall vision and concept when it comes to Heretic?

The underlying concept is, broadly speaking, the “art of time”. Acoustically, I aim for “Zen-Electronics”. In other words, I wanted to create music that would resonate with the deep consciousness of those who listened to it, and that would serve as an opportunity or mediation for some people to face their inner self. I think there are many listeners who regard it as New Age Music, but if you listen with more concentration, a deeper image should emerge from your mind. Also, what I wanted to express with Heretic was that I wanted to create music that I liked.

Tell us about all the gear you had?

Keyboards and Sound module;
Korg DSS-1×2,DSM-1,M3R
Roland U-110,R-8M
Oberheim Matrix-1000,DPX-1
E-Mu Vintage Keys +
Yamaha RX-11
Roland TD-7 and Pads

Effector, outboard;
Roland DIMENSION-D
Yamaha SPX90,SPX50D
Korg SDD-1000
BBE 462
Behringer EX-1,EX-3100
ZOOM 9150
Lexicon Jam Man

Recorder;
Fostex E-16(16tr)
Victor XD-Z505(DAT)
TEAC A-6100 mkII(2tr/38)

Console;
TASCAM M-224
BOSS BX-16

Software;
Various MIDI software,
including interactive software,
e.g. M, Jam Factory and Music Mouse..

Did you play some shows back then? What are some clubs and bands you shared stages with?

No, gigs at Heretic were very rare. The reason is that I can’t focus my attention for a long time…

1985-03-03: Doshisha University, Kyoto
1985-11-04: Ritsumeikan University, Kyoto
1986-06-22: Ritsumeikan University, Kyoto
1987-09-14: Egg Plant, Osaka as backing band of DUPPI
1988-03-19: Meguro Live Station, Tokyo

What would be the craziest experience that happened while in Heretic?

I don’t think it answers your question, but ‘Yayoi Dream’ and ‘Drugging For M’ were hybrid CDs with CD-ROMs. This was my first experience with a record company at the time, and also was my first challenge. I have a memory that I worked hard to ask for cooperation from each person/company related. However, all the instrument makers and software makers, including the record companies, who felt my enthusiasm, cooperated.

What occupied your life beside Heretic? What currently occupies your life?

After moving to Tokyo in 1999, I was immersed in the semiconductor industry until this year. To be honest, until last year, I completely forgot about my past music works… In other words, for the last 20+ years, I have spent my life thinking only about embedded software in the semiconductor industry. This year, my health has deteriorated, so I have retired from all jobs and am now living a quiet life as much as possible. When I am in good physical condition, I take a walk in the nearby botanical garden every morning. Some of the promotional videos this time are scenery of the botanical garden. Here I am healed and inspired by nature. The pinpoint answer to “What currently occupies your life?” is to release all of Heretic’s works to the world. It is to entrust Cuneiform Records as a legacy in a sense.

Tell us more about your influences et cetera.

If you ask me about the influence of books and music on me, the vague answer is that every experience I have had has influenced my life.

Looking back on the past now, I think that this release was a connection with people. I still keep in touch with people I became friends with through music, and I think this is my greatest asset and influence. I’m basically a picky eater. Therefore, people who have been friends for many years probably see me as an eccentric man. I think my wife is the most annoying, but now we are living quietly.

Is there any unreleased material by any of your projects?

As I answered in the previous question, Pre-Heretic, especially ‘Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde’, are all unreleased. As for Osiris and Astral Tempel, I have some other materials except this digital release, but I’m not satisfied with the quality of the music, so I have no plans to release them.

Let’s end this interview with some of your favourite albums. Have you found something new lately you would like to recommend to our readers?

Even if I have a favorite band, I don’t like every music/track. If I like a certain part, I edit/remix it and listen to it as my own music.

As an artist, I like them. I really like certain songs/parts from the Japanese band Lovebites (HR/HM genre). Especially ‘Edge of the World’. I’m surprised to see/listen to the drum girl (Haruna) here kicking the double bass drums and like twin guitar harmonies at 3/5 intervals and complex rhythmic changes.

In terms of the classical genre, I also really like the opera/soprano singer Chihiro Funahashi. Although she does not have her solo CD, she participated as a guest in a solo work (Lunatic Spells: 2020) by a female keyboard player named Anna Hardy. Chihiro stood out more than the host here!

In the progressive rock genre, I like some works of Poland’s Riverside. But basically, I prefer reading books to music, and I don’t listen to music only occasionally.

Thank you for taking your time. Last word is yours.

I’m a retired person, both at work and music. I am very happy to be able to release all of Heretic’s works from Cuneiform Records in the US. These music are from 30-40 years ago, but I believe they are still relevant today. Also, certain music has 3D (stereophonic) processing, so please listen to the YouTube PV with headphones. I think there is a world of sound inside that you have never experienced before. I hope you love my music. Cheers!

Klemen Breznikar

Headline photo: Hiro Kawahara (1980)

Heretic Facebook / Twitter
Cuneiform Record Official Website / Facebook / Instagram / Twitter / Bandcamp / YouTube