Argus | Interview | Dave Wagstaffe

​Argus was a completely obscure hard blues rock band consisting of drummer Dave Wagstaffe, who played in numerous progressive rock bands since the 1960s.

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In 1973 Argus recorded​ a five-track demo with the intention of securing a record deal which sadly never arrived.​ Wagstaffe later on worked with Quasar, Gaskin, Landmarq, Janison Edge, Kooch and Martin Turner of Wishbone Ash to name a few.

“We started writing songs we thought would appeal to our various tastes”

Where and when did you grow up? Was music a big part of your family life? Did the local music scene influence you or inspire you to play music?

Dave Wagstaffe: I spent my first ten years in Barnsley before we moved to Skegness, though whilst eventually playing in the local music scene, I don’t think anything happening there particularly inspired me. That was elsewhere!

When did you begin playing music? What was your first instrument? Who were your major influences?

I started playing in Skeggy along with my good pal Dave Green (guitar) though funnily I was playing guitar (badly) and Dave was on our home made drums, till we both swapped over! We were both huge Shadows fans, and they were the first band I saw live in 1961 when my Gran took me and my brother. They were still The Drifters then with Jet Harris and Tony Meehan (the latter being a huge influence at the beginning). I later gravitated to The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Yardbird, The Animals, The Kinks and more raw sounding bands. When I was fifteen I had the strange idea following my brother into the Army as a “Junior Leader” (hoho!) as I wasn’t happy with my home life. I quickly decided that wasn’t for me, though did briefly join the regimental band, but being left handed, I found the challenge of having to reverse my sticking and also using the traditional grip too much of a headache at that time, so I bombed out – but still borrowed the drum kil that was available to knock about on on my own.

What bands were you a member of prior to the formation of Argus? Are there any recordings or even unreleased material?

It was while I came home on leave one time, I met up with a local band called The Clouds (not the band signed to Island Records). I had a play with them and they asked me to join as they weren’t happy with the guy they had - but slight prob me being in the Army! I did a gig with them and they donated the gig money to help me buy myself out, which I did. They played mostly covers and also songs written by their very prolific singer / songwriter, Shane Richards. We had a couple of “managers” – wide boys as it turned out, and they booked us into a London studio to be record a couple of Shane’s songs, but which were never released,

After The Clouds folded I got together with pal Dave Green again to form one of the most enjoyable bands I’ve played in, calling ourselves Second Sight, starting off as a five piece before trimming down to three piece with bassist Steve Romaniuk and attempting to emulate our heroes, Cream, Hendrix and also The Nice. We had decent gear and an old Dormobile van, and we sclepped around the area at what seemed to us a very exciting time doing our thing. We planned to move down to London and Dave and I came down in the van on a “reconnaissance” mission and whilst driving back not very much the wiser we had a bad accident writing off the van and injuring two elderly folk who were just running in their new car. That put us out of action for a while, and then I got a chance to move down to London with my brother to take over a flat in Willesden, which we did, putting an end to Second Sight.

Can you elaborate the formation of Argus?

Once in London, I started doing the round of auditions, helped by my brother Steve who had a van. A couple of interesting ones – one was for Patrick Moraz’s Mainhorse at De Lane Lea studios and the other for Pete Bank’s – Flash, neither of which I got, but Pete later became one of my closest friends up until he sadly died. A little after we came down to London, we were joined by Dave Green and another musician from Skegness, Mick Pearl, the latter with whom we decided to form our own band, which became Argus along with recruited guitarist Del Watkins. Del had just come out of a superb band called Julian’s Treatment, who did a great double album ‘A Time Before This’ (which I still play).

He was also in a blues band called Rare Amber who did an album for Polydor. We eventually found a vocalist in Bill McCrae from Scotland. But that wasn’t till after we had attempted to recruit a fellow Skegnesian, as yet unknown to the larger rock world – one Graham Bonnet! He used to be in a skeg band called The Missing Links, and I remember Dave Green and myself watching them rehearse in the youth club shed down the road from where I lived. Later I remember walking past this cafe called The Chatterbox where they were belting out ‘Walking The Dog’. In Argus we heard his fantastic vocal on ‘Only One Woman’ with his cousin Trevor Gordon in The Marbles, so we asked Dave Green to pop round to Graham’s mum’s house in Skeg to see if he’d be desperate enough to join our band of reprobates, but he had just started a solo career and we saw him a little later on The Lulu show. Bummer. 

When did you first hear Wishbone Ash and was the band name directly inspired by their album ‘Argus’?

Yes, we shamelessly pinched the name from the Wishbone album. Between our collective tastes and favourite bands – Mick Pearl’s was Free, Del’s was the blues, mine was Colosseum and can’t recall what Bill McCrae’s was – but we had one band we all liked – Wishbone Ash. We started writing songs we thought would appeal to our various tastes. 

When and where did Argus play their first gigs? Do you remember the first song the band played? How was the band accepted by the audience?

I’m afraid I can’t recall what was our first gig, but very likely it was the Greyhound in Fulham Palace Rd, as Bill McCrae was a friend of the manager, and we played there a few times. I don’t remember unfortunately what the first song we played at the gig, but very likely ‘Road of Life’ as it’s pretty lively. Audience wise, I think it depended where we played at Colleges and Uni’s usually pretty good, to two men and a dog at some pub in the stix somewhere!

What sort of venues did Argus play early on? Where were they located?

We never toured outside the UK, but Colleges and Unis in and around London and the provinces, pubs and clubs like Cooks Ferry, The Pheasantry in King’s Rd, The Spurs, Dagenham Roundhouse and similar.

What influenced the band’s sound?

Well we were heavily influenced by Beck, Bogert & Appice, Led Zeppelin, and the aforementioned bands so a bit of all that I guess, but Del’s guitar was the prominent force.

In 1973, you recorded a five-track demo with the intention of securing a record deal which sadly never arrived. Where was this recorded?

By the time we recorded the demo tracks, we had got a new vocalist in Ken Lewis, who had been working with Linda Lewis (no relation), but from a different style of music. He had a more powerful voice than Bill’s, but I think not as sympathetic to the sort of music we were more fond of. I don’t recall why Bill left – lack of Record Company interest probably! Mick and I had this big flat in Brondesbury Park (later bought by Cat Stevens) and used it as a rehearsal room also, and that’s where we decided to record the tracks. Del’s pal from his previous bands John Dover, brought up his Revox machine and recorded us.

What’s the story behind your “album?” What kind of equipment did you use and who was the producer? How many hours did you spend in the studio?

I don’t think there was any theme or story behind the album or tracks – we just wanted like everyone else just to get a deal and tour the world!

Would you share your insight on the albums’ tracks?

Well ‘Road of Life’ was our take on Purple’s Highway Star, 24 hours influenced by Led Zeppelin’s ‘Since I’ve Been Lovin’ You’. Superstitious a rip off of BBA’s version, and ‘Friend of Mine’ and ‘Same Old Story’ sound like a Free rip off to me!

“The tracks weren’t released until about 23 years later”

How many copies were originally pressed? Was it only an acetate or a few demo copies? Did you send them to any labels in hope to get signed?

The tracks weren’t released until about 23 years later! At the time we sent the demos to Rocket Records and they showed some interest, but to what extent I don’t know, but Del left the band and any forward motion seemed to fizzle out temporarily! After Del left we put an ad in the Melody Maker and was astonished when Allan Holdsworth rang up, having just left Jon Hiseman’s Tempest. I had a nice chat with him for half an hour (having just seen him playing with Tempest in London), but I couldn’t convince him to come down for a blow. Why would he when he could see we had nothing solid on the table. We later did a few gigs with an American guitarist whose name escapes me, but shortly left saying he was going on tour with Dr. Hook & the Medicine Show. After that we had a change of mind and decided to get a sax player instead, and landed all too briefly John “Irish” Earl (RIP) just out of the band Gnidrolog on baritone sax, and he was fantastic. He transformed the material of which sadly there’s no recordings, and it wasn’t long before he left to join Kilburn and The Highroads and later play on Thin Lizzy ‘Live and Dangerous’ album.

Fast forward 20 odd years and I was playing at a festival with the band Landmarq and was mooching about the various stalls that were there, and got chatting to a guy selling CD’s, and, noticing me looking through all these obscure 70’s bands we got chatting and eventually Argus came up, and he asked if I had any recordings. I said I had an old reel to reel that had been rotting away under the bed and could he hear it he asked. He specialised in similar such non released stuff for his label Audio Archives and said he would be interested in releasing it. I was curious myself to hear what it sounded like after all those years, and the tape was unlikely to survive much longer so just to get it transferred to disc would be nice for my archives! I explained that there wasn’t enough material for a full album, so he asked if I had anything else from the seventies, and the only thing I had was an old cassette from a live gig by Anaconda, which was also on the verge of dropping to bits. Even though it was a different band he said he was interested, and again I thought that that would also be a goner if someone didn’t save it.

So he put it out and I have no idea how many were produced. Nothing was signed and needless to say I’ve never received a penny from the release, though oddly, I’m glad that I can still look back and hear it.

Argus recordings were recently issued again. It must be quite exciting to hear the five tracks plus some live records. I guess a few live tracks are taken from post-Argus underground psych-prog outfit Anaconda. Tell us more about Anaconda.

I saw to my surprise a while back that some company had put out a vinyl copy of it – which had no permissions from me! I noticed though they had left off the drum solo from the Anaconda set! I joined that band in 1977 and though you would never know from the recording, we were hugely influenced by Return to Forever, and their stunning album ‘The Romantic Warrior’.

The band comprised the very talented guitarist Randy Spence, Reg McKeouen on flute, Rod Abbotson on bass, and myself on the tubs. They had no label interest when I was with them, and never ventured out of London during my tenure. They played the London pubs that featured rock bands and ones that had jazzing acts. There were two stints upstairs at Ronnie Scott’s club – once with Joe Pass and the other with Sarah Vaughn.

When did Argus disband? Would you like to share a band member’s timeline? You were the only constant member?

It was ’74 I believe when we called it a day. Mick Pearl and myself were the only constant members of Argus, but it was fairly short lived looking back. Mick left to briefly play with Hackensack I gather, and then joined Streetband with Paul Young, which then morphed into Q Tips, who were a great band and supported The Who at Wembley stadium, where Mick broke his arm, clowning around most probably! The two vocalists I lost all track of shortly after, so no idea what they got up to afterwards. I shared a flat with Del in the mid eighties but I don’t think he was gigging at that time, but he died some years ago sadly.

What are some venues Argus played? What are some bands you shared stages with? 

I’ve mentioned some of the gigs I remember, but some of the bands we supported were Thin Lizzy, Pink Fairies, Brinsley Schwarz, Jack The Lad and The Equals.

What would be the craziest story that happened to Argus?

One silly story that springs to mind was on our way back from a gig at Epping Country club, and my brother Steve was driving the band wagon owned by our manager, and as we went round Marble Arch a wheel came off and we were stranded on the roundabout. We had no AA or suchlike, so Steve went back to get his van, we loaded up the gear and just fucked off and left the manager’s old heap where it was in the middle of the roundabout- what a bunch of tossers!

Were you still in touch with other members? Is any member still involved with the music?

I haven’t heard from Mick for a few years when he came to see a gig in Skegness when I was with Martin Turner’s Wishbone Ash. He used to be a fan of Martin’s bass playing years ago, but I don’t know what he is up to nowadays. As I said, I lost touch with the two vocalists, but hope they are both doing OK. The Anaconda guys I lost touch with shortly after, though I did get an email from Randy’s wife a few years ago who told me sadly he had died. I was always hoping that one day we could play together again as I imagine his playing wound have been stupendous in later years.

You also collaborated with Quasar and Gaskin?

I joined Gaskin in about 1984 after I came back to London after some years in East Anglia and after my marriage unfortunately broke up. We rehearsed for about six months working on the band’s third album. I did only one gig with them then Paul Gaskin wanted to move back up to his native Scunthorpe where he has continued to keep the band rolling. 

I joined Quasar on 1st January 1985 and was with them for five and a half years, and it was the best band I’ve been in for all round quality. I missed playing on the first album ‘Fire In the Sky’ which I think is a classic, and recorded ‘The Loreli’ with them in about 1989 with Tracy Hitchings on vocals, Founding member Keith Turner has just put out a remastered copy which includes a previous recording of the same material which was never released and has different vocals. I much prefer this version just by the way it was recorded in our own studio, unlike the later version which was a more hurried affair and just didn’t gel for me despite a great vocal performance. The earlier version which we called ‘Forgotten Dreams’ is probably the piece of work I’m most proud of that I’ve been involved with, and nothing to do with the drumming!

How did Landmarq begin? Tell us about it. 

Landmarq came in a way from the ashes of Quasar, in that myself, Steve Leigh, Uwe D’Rose and Bob Daisley had all been in Quasar though I came in a little later. The other guys had got together with bassist Steve Gee and were initially doing covers whilst writing new material. I joined after my last tour with Quasar, and stayed for 22 years. We had a helping hand to start with being signed to a small Dutch label called S.I. Music who did the first three albums and set up nice Dutch tours when we had minimal interest elsewhere!

I would love to hear about Janison Edge with Ian Salmon (guitar), Sue Element (vocals), Mike Varty (keyboards), Paul Brown (bass). How did that come about?

That is Mike Varty and his girlfriend Sue (now known as Sam) project and they wrote the music. I had met Mike some time before when we had a side project called Syren, which was Steve Gee, Uwe, Tracy and myself from Landmarq and Mike. It was short lived but some of the songs ended up on a future Landmarq album after Mike joined the band.

Ian Salmon I had known for some time from being part of the “Thin Ice Studio” crowd, which is a bunch of bands who recorded there at Clive Nolan and Karl Groom’s studio in Virginia Water. Ian’s a great guitarist and bass player. Paul Brown I’d also met there and later worked with him in Oliver Wakeman’s band and also with. Davy O List.

There’s little known about a band called Kooch.

That’s not too surprising as it’s not rock and the vocals are not in English! It centered around guitarist and vocalist Cyrus Khajavi, who was in Quasar when I first joined them. He was from Iran and the music was basically Iranian folk music melodies and rhythms played by a bunch of rock/ prog musicians and the vocals being in Farsi (Iranian) which is a beautiful language. There are a lot of “Floydian” type sounds and textures in there. The first incarnation was Cyrus, myself and violinist Farzad Khavand, and we used to play to huge Iranian crowds in London and Bristol. The second incarnation was Cyrus, myself, Keith Turner and Uwe D’Rose from Quasar, plus a very very talented violinist and a cello player. The album we recorded at Thin Ice Studio titled ‘Zemzeme’ (Whisper) was one of the other recordings I’m most proud of. Certainly the most original project I’ve been involved with. Cyrus, one of the most wonderful people I’ve met, sadly died of cancer a few years ago.

You also played with Martin Turner of Wishbone Ash?

When I joined around 2008, the band was known as Martin Turner’s Wishbone Ash right up until I left in 2013 when the court case with Andy Powell resulted in Martin not being able to use the name Wishbone Ash. (The High Court case can be read about on the Internet!) However, I really enjoyed playing the music to big audiences around the world, but there was nothing really creative in it for me, my remit being to try and play like Steve Upton (who’s playing I loved anyway) as it was also correspondingly for the other players. 

What about The Oliver Wakeman Band…

My pal Clive Nolan had been working with Oliver on their ‘Jabberwocky’ album, and Oliver was doing an album with Steve Howe (‘The 3 Ages Of Magick’) and wanted a drummer so Clive mentioned me. Oliverc sent me demos of the material but due to a postal strike I never got the CD and went down to the studio in Devon not knowing it, so we had to do it in short takes. It came out much better than I could have expected. We did a bunch of gigs in and around another couple of his solo albums before going to Poland to record a concert for dvd. Dad Rick often turned up when we played at the Classic Rock Society in Rotherham to heckle us!

Looking back, what was the highlight of your time in the band? Which songs are you most proud of? Where and when was your most memorable gig?

Not sure which band you mean but to mention two – one was the first time with Quasar when we played The Marquee club in London, another other with MT’s Wishbone when we played a big festival in Austria with Santana, Colosseum and Ten Years After. The most memorable tour was when we toured Brazil – what an amazing country.

What are some of the most important players that influenced your own style and what in particular did they employ in their playing that you liked?

The most consistently inspirational player (drummer!) over the longest period of time, and who I saw in many different bands and styles was Jon Hiseman, who I was thrilled to meet and chat with eventually. Other English drummers I loved – (starting with Tony Meehan and Brian Bennett,) Ian Paice, Mitch Mitchell, Andy McCulloch, Paul Hammond, Gary Husband, Simon Phillips to name a few. American drummers – Buddy Rich, Vinnie Colaiuta, Bobby Columby, Dave Weckl, Billy Cobham, Dennis Chambers, Carmine Appice and many more. Leaving drummers out of it, Michel Camilo, Allan Holdsworth, Chris Farlowe, Jack Bruce, John McLaughlin, Martin Carthy, Jeff Beck, Paul McCartney and many more.

What currently occupies your life? 

Trying to survive! Several recent recording projects – recorded the drums for David O’List next album, and also for Eighties Proggy band Tamarisk ‘Suspended Animation’ with Steve Leigh on keys. Steve also has a solo album ‘Optimum Wave’ which I did the drums for and also the artwork. Should be out anytime soon. I still do drum teaching, but, most importantly, looking after my lovely wife Rose who has some health issues so I don’t go on tour at present. She is a singer and we have a small studio at home where we record our own music and record stuff over the internet

Thanks for listening to me babbling on! 

Klemen Breznikar

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Headline photo: Argus live | Mick Pearl (bass), Dave Wagstaffe (drums), Bill McCrae (vocals), Del Watkins (guitar)